16 Responses for "Fascinating Chinese Word Meanings"

1. Culturev January 26th, 2008 at 6:36 pm 1

   I don’t quite agree with a few things you have posted here as I glanced over your article.

   One is the usage of 老外，yes, using 老 is considered a respectful way of referring to an individual but that is when there is a name attached. 外 on the other hand is not a name and means “outside” not “foreign”. For educated persons using the expression 老外 is definitely not acceptable.

   As for your 鬼了 has no meaning outside of maybe saying that someone has done something “ghoulish”. By adding 了 the word become a verb in the past tense. I believe this is a typo, however it’s important to be attentive to these things for people learning the language.

   The word you wanted to say was 鬼子 which to the Chinese means “Jap” it does not refer to Westerners that would be 洋鬼子。

   I speak native fluent Mandarin and have lived in China for over 20 years.

2. Demerzel January 26th, 2008 at 7:50 pm 2

   外 has more than one meaning and in fact 外 is used for short-hand for 外国人, therefore 老外 is 老外国人, a respected foreigner (or respected outside person). Just because you speak fluent Mandarin or are educated does not mean you are now Chinese (as my native Chinese wife put it). I am curious then if you had a better name for a “foreigner” then to suggest?

   You’re correct in one respect that I should have noted it as 鬼子 (鬼了 is the Cantonese one), but that 鬼子 is referred to any type of invader of China, although probably nowadays you’re right in that it likely refers to the Japanese, but otherwise it actually is 日鬼子.

3. Culturev January 26th, 2008 at 9:56 pm 3

   Thanks, I won’t continue explaining things to you because you already think you know it all. Your ways of seeing things are a bit too simple. If you live in China why not ask the Chinese. If you don’t then I suggest you move there and spend about 10 years so you will have a correct impression of the true language spoken in China not in your own way of seeing things. Anyway, Cantonese is 鬼佬 not 鬼了。 也根本没人去说老外国人除非是为了说明这个外国人是个老人。而且日鬼子并不是个词必须得说日本鬼子就对了。就这样吧！没门！

4. Demerzel January 26th, 2008 at 10:31 pm 4

   Actually, what I explained was not from me, but rather from my native Chinese wife (minus the misspelling of 日本鬼子 and the Cantonese 鬼佬), and thus already asked someone who is Chinese.

   I personally think that you are over-reacting possibly since you may have grown up there and consider yourself Chinese, and take it out by changing the original meaning of 老外.

   If you are referring to the idea that someone extremely knowledgeable about China should not be referred to as ‘老外’, that’s a whole other thing–be it the preference of 洋人 or 中国通.

   老婆 and 老公 both use the 老 as the respected/old character (which in my opinion is naming someone just like calling someone 老外(国人), so, while you may feel that you do not need to explain things for emotional reasons, I lay out my case with facts to prove otherwise. Of course, if you can give some reasons otherwise rather than attacking me personally (as I did in response by saying you may have identity issues within China), then I would love to hear them.

5. Ivy Yu January 26th, 2008 at 10:45 pm 5

   As a native Chinese, I need to say something about ‘老外‘, which i don’t understand why some ‘foreigners’ feel insulted by being called that. And why foreigner are called ‘老外‘，from my point of view, there are two reasons and both are not insulting.

   1st, yes, it can mean respective, or meaning friendly. For respective, we have ‘老师‘’老板‘. For friendly, we have ‘老张’‘老王‘’老李‘，etc. None of them meaning old.

   2nd, that ‘老‘has no meaning at all. just like we call rats ‘鼠＝老鼠‘，tigers ‘虎＝老虎‘，it doesn’t mean old, nor does it mean respective.

   All in all, for whatever reason, ‘lao’ is either positive or neutral.

   As for ‘wai’, that is the abbreviation for ‘外国人‘. And why people call foreigners ‘laowai’ instead of ‘lao waiguoren ‘ ? Because ‘laowai’ sounds better. And also make them feel like we regard them as our neighbors, just like we call friends ‘ lao zhang’ ‘lao wang’, same.

   So, if a foreigner is insulted by being called laowai, which really means he is not knowing about Chinese culture, however long he stays there.

6. Culturev January 27th, 2008 at 7:14 am 6

   于小姐好！So you’re a chick。我认为叫小姐是很礼貌 为什么很多中国人认为小姐是不礼貌呢？因为它可以产生误会。 你的英文不错, 因此我认为你应该可以明白如果我叫中国人Chinaman，我就说China是一个很好的词，man也没什么。所以叫Chinaman也是很礼貌。我认为听到Chinaman这个词的中国人不应该引起误会。你认为说老外是礼貌，我认为不是。而且我有很多中国朋友战成我的观点。为什么？因为他们也认为巴人分得变成“你和我” 就是不对。我去健身房中国人都是“会员”我是老外。我路上走过来走过去中国人就叫我老外，而且用一种让人难以接受的讨厌的口气。说外国人、这位、这个人等说法都不引起这种瞧不起人的口气。为什么老外就会让人感到不舒服？难道就是因为本人对中国文化不够了解！而且，你是个中国人你还能说“外”是外国的简称，我认为你应该去想一想。你这个想法本生不符合汉语的逻辑。外能代表人吗？你最近有没有查现代汉语词典看老外是否在里头？你也别跟我老外了好嘛！

7. Culturev January 27th, 2008 at 4:24 pm 7

   Hello Demertzel,
   If I attacked you personally that was not my intent. Please forgive me. My intent was to point out to you that the Chinese language and culture are not so simple as one may perceive them to be. You are infatuated with it all now, and from the words you chose as interesting it is clear that you lack depth in the language (this is simply a fact, I was there once too). I don’t need to prove anything to you as time may help you see what you cannot see now.

   It took me six years in China before I began realizing the vast mind-set barrier; the linguistic culture barrier that exists between Chinese and Western languages. True Chinese friends will admit these things, others will not for need to save National face. This is simply the way this culture is, it’s not good it’s not bad it’s just different from the way our language works. (Ask your wife to tell you the story about 矛盾） You will have a hard time finding a Westerner who has spent more time and gone deeper into this culture and language than myself, not saying they don’t exist just not a dime a dozen. No bragging just simply the truth. I graduated with a degree in Mongolian language from a university in China, in order to do that I had to pass HSK, I passed the advanced test simply from living in the country for such a long time. I have taught Mandarin at Berlitz and have done multiple simultaneous interpreting sessions in very strict environments. I wish you luck and success in your realization of the Chinese language, there is a need for people who have dual cultural abilities from the Western side. In order to do that one must spend multiple years living deep within the target culture and speaking the language on a minute to minute basis; dreaming, thinking, contemplating in the target language, laughing and crying with the speakers in their own mindset. It’s not all that easy. Good luck.

8. Ivy Yu January 27th, 2008 at 6:13 pm 8

   如果别人叫我于小姐，我很乐意接受。因为我也觉得这是个很好的称呼。确实近年来小姐＝鸡＝妓女，但是小姐仍旧是 Miss的意思，and we also have the phase “千金小姐‘,你知道这个什么意思么？

   所以，你叫‘于小姐’‘李小姐’‘张小姐’，没有人会生气地，没有人会认为你在insulting.

   And if you are so addicted to research every single word to see how they make up to a noun, here ” 小姐“is also unacceptable to you, isn’t it? Because ‘小‘ means little, ‘姐’means sisiter. So, it’s little sisger! Why you call me little sisiter then ? Hahah.

   再说 chinaman。你也说了， 老外字典里没有，chinaman却在字典里有，and it’s the same as call some black people the n-word.

   如果你叫我 chinese, 我没问题； 叫我chinaman, i will think if you are educated or not.

   那么，如果我叫你‘老外’，you have problem; what should i call you when i don’t know your nationality? Because when we know, we would call
   美国人，欧洲人,etc.

   So，please suggest a ‘name’ for Chinese peoples to call foreigners other than ‘老外 ‘？

9. Demerzel January 27th, 2008 at 6:19 pm 9

   Culturev,

   It is very easy to attack or assume to be attacked in the online world, definitely one of the downsides of the Internet, my apologies on attacking you as well.

   You are definitely right that the Chinese language and culture is not simplistic (in general, what language or culture really is?)

   Updated below: Clicked submit prematurely.

   My Chinese is definitely far inferior to your Chinese, I do not doubt that, but my point is that on the whole, the concept that 老外 is a derogatory name for a foreigner is off-base. Yes, it can be used in such a way in a few situations just like someone in the US calling someone from China, “Chinese.” What matters is the intent of the person that makes the word derogatory, but not the word itself. Maybe that’s a matter of semantics between the two of us (I myself can recall using that word whenever I would see another foreigner during SARS in China unintentionally), but that still leaves me my original question to you:

   If 老外 is the derogatory name, what would be the “correct” way then in your opinion?
   That and what was the original meaning of 老外 (laowai)?

10. Sally January 27th, 2008 at 7:55 pm 10

    “老外”这个词只是一个词,真要分好坏也是看说者的心态~~~~~~
    俄国
    soon to be a country = Russia (although I personally think of 饿国 = hungry country)
    对于俄国这个词，你的解释怎么这么有意思呢？？/

11. Demerzel January 27th, 2008 at 8:15 pm 11

    俄 = presently, very soon 所以 “soon to be/presently a country”. 我知道这个意思不对。

12. Culturev January 27th, 2008 at 9:45 pm 12

    LOL 俄国= 饿国挺好玩！这我倒没想过。。。

    我认为说外国人或那个人都可以。如果我朋友叫我老外我不介意。是不认识我的人随便说我就接受不了。

    I agree that it is the way the word is used, too much if you ask me. People just look and point and call “老外“. But I don’t know who you are and you don’t know who I am why are you so 亲切？

13. Demerzel January 29th, 2008 at 11:03 am 13

    我学习汉字时候，我一直使记得每个单词，所以会给每个单词奇怪的意思。大部分帮助我记得那个单词，不过有时候记得错。

    事实上我常常听小孩用说外国人，但是同意你的看法关于我朋友可以用奇怪的单词，是为了使我朋友。

    Cordial （亲切) as in too friendly? That I don’t mind, but that’s an American bias when you think of how we say “how are you/how’s it going/hello.” We go around saying “what’s up,” but do not actually mean to hear how your whole day went. heh.

14. Culturev January 29th, 2008 at 3:40 pm 14

    亲切 is nowhere close to the meaning of cordial. If you are learning Chinese from a dictionary you will gain a lot of misconceptions for words. Dictionaries are, in many instances, way off on meanings because there are many words that don’t have culturally literal translations between the two languages.

    The meaning of a word is not what the dictionary “explains” it to be, rather how the society uses it. 亲切 is a good example, this word in Chinese society is used to express feelings of closeness and camaraderie between people. It encompasses the way people would talk to each other and almost has a sense of being “tight”. Cordial, on the other hand, has a feeling of distant yet polite. These meanings are created from the way people use them, this makes learning languages with big culture gaps very difficult to learn if you are not in the language environment.

    Even a word so simple as friendship and 友谊 don’t carry the same cultural information. Or for instance banquet and 宴会. One of my favorite examples is the difference between “we’ll talk about it later” and “以后再说”, English you understand, but when a Chinese person says “以后再说” what they are really saying is basically “I don’t want to talk about this again”.

    I hope this is helpful and interesting to you, it is my way of viewing the cultural linguistic situation between English and Chinese.

15. Demerzel January 29th, 2008 at 8:53 pm 15

    This is definitely helpful and interesting to me as obviously most dictionaries can only encompass the original/actual meaning rather than what the modern usage is as dictionaries are often out-of-date within one year (or less).

    Probably would be useful to see a Chinese site like “urbandictionary.com” that can put in various slang and usages for a large variety of common terms (assuming that there isn’t one already).

16. Sisi March 6th, 2008 at 10:37 pm 16

    老外 is a kinda oral Chinese way to express the word foreigner. Someone might think it’s an insult and use it to insult but we’d rather add some more word like, 臭洋鬼子，死老外 etc. For our Chinese some Chinese words are even difficult to explain. Same thing goes to English. All in all most of the native Chinese speakers call foreigners 老外 but write 外国人 in articles mostly.